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Lou Dobbs Tonight

News/Business. Lou Dobbs. The journalist offers his take on issues and interviews newsmakers. (CC)




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Boston 31, Us 19, Fbi 10, United States 8, Mississippi 4, London 4, Afghanistan 4, Garth 3, Roger Wicker 3, Pinocchio 3, New York 3, Yemen 3, Washington 3, Johnson 2, United 2, Husqvarna 2, Legalzoom 2, Campbell 2, China 2, Pakistan 2,
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  FOX Business    Lou Dobbs Tonight    News/Business. Lou Dobbs. The journalist offers  
   his take on issues and interviews newsmakers. (CC)  

    April 16, 2013
    10:00 - 11:00pm EDT  

%-from boston. the irs says boston taxpayers will be granted extensions on their tax returns. every little bit helps. that is my "2 cents more." a great night and we will see rebecca tomorr evening. ♪ lou: lou: good evening and thank you for being with us. details tonight emerging about yesterday's horrific terrorist attack and the boston marathon. the two exploons on boils some street wounded 176 by standards. three people killed. martin richard lost his life in thexplosion that also left his brother and sister critically wounded. waiting by the finish line to hug his father and to congratulate him for finishing a marathon. 29-year-old crystal campbell also killed in the attack after adding to the finish line to
take a picture of a friend was completing the race. the third victim has now been identified as a graduate student from boston university, but her name has not been released pending notification of next of kin. seventeen other victims tonight remain in critical condition. some have lost limbs or arms, many have suffered severe injuries ttheir legs. doctor operated to remove shrapnel, mostly ball bearings, pellets, and nails from the victims. one doctor today predicted that the worst of this ordeal is over for most of his patients. here is massachusetts general hospital trauma surgeon dr. george bell moss. >> more confident. no further life will be lost. and ting some of the patient's back to the operating room to further address their loans, but
they're all hemodynamics stable. some of them woke up completely. i talk to them. clear mental status. so overall. lou: 32 victims in all have undergone major surgery at four boston hospitals. meanwhile, president obama has left no question that the boston marathon bombing was an act of terrorism. the fbi is it evidence response team processing a scene along with the alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and state and local agencies looking for evidence and coming through thdebris for any clues that might lead to the capture of those responsible for the carnage. >> this morning the fbi along with boston pd, massachusetts state police, and atf, officially began its forensic evans recovery effort at the site.
their goal was to recover physical items related to the blast. those items have been recovered and are being sent to the fbi's laboratory in quantico, virginia lou: the fbi has confirmed there are no plans a responsibility and that the range of suspects and motives remains wide open. authorities are asking anyone with phographs orideo near the scene of the explosions to take that evidence to the fbi for examination. the critically important part in the investigation focuses on the components used to make the two bombs and the device or devices used to detonate them. similar devices and similarly constructed bombs have been the hallmark of the pakistan the caliban and al qaeda in yemen. and mr. peters caution everyone not to jump to conclusions. fox news chief intelligence correspondent with our report.
>> the senior fbi agent confirmed tonight that bomb components were recovered. the evidence is being shipped to the fbi lab in virginiwhere technicians will reconstruct the devices to identy where the components are from and possibly who bought them. this is referred to as the bombs unique signature. video footage shows what appears to be large metal fragments flying through the air as shrapnel tears through the crowd. two sources tell fox his investators believed the bombs used pressure cookers with ball bearings. each piece now part of the zzle. >> working closely with investigators. spinning them whenever evidence we c find it. >> part of the failed times square bombing in 2010 in the subject of an fbi intelligence bulletin. is also a tactic associated with al qaeda in yemen in its on-line propaganda for potential recruits. >> pressure cookers can be obtained here relatively easily and without usually raising much
alarm. i don't think that you can necessarily say that because it was a pressure cooker therefore someone from that region is a person that is responsible. >> the group that trained at times square plotter denied involvement, they have told instigators they reached no conclusions about a domestic or foreign connection. >> an ongoing investigation. it certainly will not be confined to the city limits of boston. we will t to the ends of years to identify the subject or suects were responsible. >> reporter: fox news told the fbi is gaining cellphone tower records for a moment of that nation adding a positiveaken to allow investigators to trace phone number and suspect. investigators expressed frustration that no chatter pointing to a group or individual were pick up during or immediately after the attack. with a high profile search and no possibility, the ranking
member of the senate intelligence committee was briefly today. >> we are kinda back to square one with regard to the who and why. >> the fbi reenforcing that point, telling reporters that the cases wide-open adding, the need to ur from the public becae someone's friend, relative to more coworker knows what happened. lou: thank you very much. fox news chief intelligence correspondent. my first guest is surprised that there have not been even more attacks like the one in boston since september 11th and gives credit to the work done. joining us now, ralph guliani, served as new york city's mayor during the 2001 world trade center terrorist attacks, a partner at the law firm. good to have you with us. >> best to be with you. lou: first, let's start with the fact that there ruled out the young man who apparently was the person of interest, not a suspect ying that he had nothing to do with it. what does that suggest to you
about where they are? >> it is a setback. in the murder investigation, terrorism investigation, the logger it takes to solve the lessf a chance you have to solve it. it's just a pgression, a formula that is there. so they spend focusing on one person. seems to me they're now back at ground zero try to figure out how to put this all together. so when i heard them ask earlier today for everybody to cooperate photographs, i was hoping that that was a ploy and they already had a photograph from ther own surveillance. apparently it out. lou: in nearly every city, obviously more familiar with new yorkity and boston, closed-circuit television almost everywhere. these cameras. how much surveillance to you expect there is? i have been, frankly, remarkably impressed by how much veo we have seen of the explosions
themselves. >> boston has by and large more than new york. less than london, the new york. london, when the bombing took place in 20005. they had -- i think they had the suspects about 67 hours later because tony blair said that the headquarters. they showed me, i think it's this one, that one, this one, that one. they have a tremendous amount of camera coverage in london. boston has less than london, but more the new york. this area is an area in which they havv probably the most camera coverage. so i was hoping that their own cameras would pick it up. you also have television coverage of the marathon. you also have a mature people who take picres of the father, son, daughter. hopefully they have something.
but just reaching out to the public asking for it, hoping it results in something. lou: the police commissioner, the special agent in charge, the fbi, they are both saying that they had a vast amount of information brought to them by the public. let's hope that it is the right and permission. >> it takes awhile to go through all that. sometimeit is two or three days later when you went picture jumps out in one piece of informational come out, but it is also true in any investigation, the longer it takes the percentage of sving it goes down. lou: a hallmark of theakistan the taliban. is that significant? >> we have to speculate little bit. that does not necessarily mean that this being orchestrated in pakistan or by al qaeda.
kidney is being done by people imitating them. kind of like this situation where these are homegrown terrorists. by the same token, he is ag hottest. remember, he asked people to do this. he actually several times made pleas for people to become their own and move forward. people respond to that. and so i am guessing that this is going to turn out to be an islamic extremist motivation. it is going to be one of those guys the people rather than something orchestrated by al qaeda overseas. could also be something else. we just don't know yet. it could be some other ideology or some other crazy set of ideas lou: homeland security department secretary napolitano saying that she is convinced that this is not part of a larger plot that it is one instance. your reaction?
>> you can't know that now. you can't. i think it is not part of an international plot. that is my hunch. i investigated cases with punches. at the time they were right, have the time they were wrong. i had to abandon a lot o punches that turned out to be wrong. you're asking me for my hunch, this is not orchestrated by al qaeda overseas. but this could veryell be being done by homegrown people who were looking tory to do the same thing. or we could be all wrong and this could be some kind of other plot having to do with something that we have not even figured out yet. lou: so i infer from what you're saying that you think this is at most a small groupf people working to carry out these terrorist attacks. not an individual. >> i don't think this is a major, a planned attack by an overseas group. i think it would be far bigger than what we saw if it were a
planned attack. on the other hand it is not a small attack. significant attack. this fits right in the wheelhouse of these people who are home grown radicalized islamists. or it could be one of these other groups that has these crazy grievances, somof which we only find out about after we actually catch the person you did. lou: hopefully we will do that quickly. >> i hope so. the sooner the better. the logger it goes the harder it is to catch them and the more the frustration level builds up with the families and everyone else. lou: as always, good to have you here. thank you so much. we have breaking news right now out of capitol hill. fox news has learned that a letter addressed to senator roger wicker, republican of mississippi, has tested positive for the deadly poison ricin. now, this poisoned letter tested
of sight before it went to the capitol, attorneys were apparently -- lawmakers were apparently never in any real danger. mr.ish officials in including fbi director and homeland security secretary have briefed senators behind closed doors tonight. and that letter -- this is just about where we are right now with what we know. a letter tested positive for poison that was sent to senator roger wicker, republican of mississippi. details, ase learn more we will be bringing it to you. stay with us. we're coming right back with the very latest. ♪3 lou:hree dead, more than 170 wounded. nation grieving. and these three are playing a blame game. we introduce you to them in tonight's "chalk talk." terrorism in boston, more
threats from p'yongyang, general jackie and joins us in just moments. ♪ [ engine revving ] ♪ [ male announcer ] every car we bild must make adrenaline pump and pulses quicken. ♪ to help you not just to stay alive... but feel alive. the c-class is no exception. it's a mercedes-benz through and through. the 2013 c-class. starting at $35,350.
♪ lou: joining us now, retired four-star army general, former army vice chief of staff, also fox use military analyst. it to have you with this. let's start with the homeld security secretary saying no current indication to suggest the events in boston are indicative of a broader plot. what is your response to that statement? and, if we may begin there. >> i don't know what the evidence iso support that.
clearly it can be. the fact of the matter is, let's just take al qaeda for a second. the new al qaeda lear does not believe in that big, symbolic attacks that al qaeda central leaders did almost 12 years ago. he has encouraged his affiliates, as did the last few years to do these attacks locally. and therefore that they are not going to be on the same scale. and most of them, quite frankly, are very different in the sense that they are not suicide bombers. that is, maybe what has taken place. these guys have to get out safely because they did not intend to kill themselves. they could be domestic terrorists, but we could never rule out at this stage that this is an overall strategic objective against the estates by a radical islamist groups. lou: and even if, as as i was discussing with the mayor here earlier, even if indeed this were not organized or directed
by specifically al qaeda, whether it be in yemen or whether it be in pakistan or afghanistan, it is still part of a broader war on terror, is it not? >> absolutely. the radical islamists that operate in the region want to establish a caliphate where they dominate the region, and their goals are even as ambitious as world communism with a ticket out of the region to the rest of the world to accomplish that. they believe they have to drive the united states out of the region because of our ideas that they fear more than our military, democracy and capitalism. that strategic objective and the operational oectives to achieve it have not changed. they don't tell an affiliate what to do or how to do it. they just tell them to do something against the elements of power. that is what may be taking place here. this is against the american people, to be short. no american symbol, so to speak in terms of our economic or
military power are involved, but certainly a punishing attacks against their people. lou: and onehat obviously captures the attention of the world at a time when the united states is being both threatened and challenged by north korea. we remain at war in afghanistan. we are pressed year for time, but if you will, give us your sense of whathis -- assess th in the context of the larger war that we continue to carry out in afghanistan and our policies in the pacific and specifically north korea and china. >> very quickly, i am absolutely convinced that the radical islamist movement, number one, they are on the re and have gains. they are significant. they also believe that one of the reason they're able to achieve that is because the united states has strategically pulled back from the region.
we don't state that, but, in fact, it is true. i think that is contributing to emboldening this movement and having them reach out and take some risks. maybe they would not otherwise take. north koreans, that is another chapter in i ending chapter of the pattern of strident rhetoric , provocation, eventually diplomatic talks with the united states and finally concessions by the united states. three presidents have engaged in that. our current president is doing that now through his secretary of state, offering diplomatic talks. what we have gotten out of that is north. not onl having a nuclear capability, but not developing a nuclear weapons capability which eventually the most dangerous threat to the united states going all the way back to world war ii. lo thank you very much for being here. we appreciated.
>> always good talking to you. lou: thank you. wall seet recovering from its worst performance of the year. housing conruction rising to the highest leveln five years. coca-cola, johnson and johnson, goldman all being earnings. the big story was the recovery from yesterday's big sell-off. the dow rallying 158 points in response to the s&p 500 up 22 points. nasdaq 48 points higher on the date. the other three nap billion shares traded on the big board. the biggest gains of the day, companies that make material, making housing materials, concrete, asphalt, balkan rallying 7%. sherwin-williams, whirlpool, all turning in solid performances. commodity price stabilizing. down $140 per ounce yesterday. crude oil flat on the day, up a penny a brel. in the credit markets, yields of slightly. coming up next year, some
democrats playing politics with yesterday's terrific terrorist attack in boston wheezing not even 24 hours. in the "chalk talk" we will share their embarrassment with you. and investigators determine the types of bonds used. will it lead them to those who carried out this heinous attack? terrrrorism experts join us here next. ♪ girl vo: i'm pretty conservative. very logical thinker. (laughs) i'm telling you right now, the girl back at home would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle. (screams) i'm really glad that girl stayed at home.
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♪ lou: you a looking now at a3 vigil under way. the dorchester neighborhood of boston. the home of the 8-year-old young boy, to richard, who was killed while he was at the finish line waiting and watching for his father finishing the race. the second victim, crystal campbell has been identified by authorities.
authorities now say that the third victim killed in those boston marathon bombings is a graduate student at boston university. no name has been reased pending notification of next of kin. ere are a lot of unknowns, of course, about this bombing, this terrorist act less than 24 hours after those two bombs exploded, three current and former congressman embarrassed tmselves in a display of petty partisan politics. we want to introduce them to you here tonight. one of them is house minority whip. during his weekly pen and pad brieng, he argued that the boston marathon terrorist act is proof that the sequestered cuts should be ended. obviously unaware that the pentagon has furughed exactly
zero civilian workers. absolutely zero. and defense officials may drop the furloughs entirely. homeland security has not furloughed anyone, and it has not cut overtime. so the exact impact is zero. the "washington post" gives away pinocchio's for lying. tonight we are giving dunce caps away, and we will continue to do this. elected officials to make egregiously silly statements. we think our elected officials should be so honored and noted. so we are going to award this to acquire tonight. and he earned it. i think you would agree. fellow democrat, a year from california, the head of the house democratic caucus today warned that the sequester cuts undermine the ability of our cities to respond to terrorist
attacks. listen t this. >> so, when tho first responders did such a phenomenal job yesterday in boston, chances are the mayor in boston is now having to figure out how to cover for the extra cost involved in having so many people out there for security and emergency medical assistance responding because they get paid so he is now probably getting money from some other part of his budget, the community police tell whether it's a vaccine for kids provided to a city. they have to pay for it. lou: pure balderdash. these are the facts, congressman. boston has actually increased its police force of the last couple of years from just under 2100 to 2,116 over the course of that time. and there are more firefighters as well, up from 1400 to 1467
now. so this is quite remarkable. boston has not cut at&t's are paramedics either. still employing 350 ian ts and paramedics. 350, the same amount as for the past few years. the city of boston pays for those employees. he congress is not only engaging in petty partisan politics, he is entirely wrong. and for that we award him our dunce cap. and we also have some old friends with us tonight. former congressman barney frank who used the terrorist attacks in boston tolammed those advocating for smaller government. here he is. >> in this terrible situation let's be very grateful that we had a well-founded government. one of the communities.
though one texas. no tax cuts would have helped us deal with this war will help us recover. this is very expensive. lou: barney frank making, perhaps not much sense. apparently not recognizing either the absurdity of trying to draw parallels between lower taxes and terrorist attacks. the congressman deserves a dunce cap, but he is a former congressman. you know what, we're not going to give him one tonight. i'm sorry. we're just not going to do it. you deserve it, but we will need all of them for those who are still in office and insist on making fools ofhemselves, even in the midst of crises. you want to be sure we have enough. markets toda rebounding from yesterday's tragedy. market sell-off with a triple digit rally. deutsche bank economist joins us next. the senate immigration plan goes public. one congressman says it makes no
sense at all. investigators in pursuit of those responsible for the boston tragedy, national security experts and next. ♪ mowing your lawn isn't always easy. but maybe the problem isn't your lawn. introducing the all-wheel-drive mower from husqvarna. we engineered its unique drive system and dual transmission to handle hills& thick grass& and tough terrain& without losing traction or power the all-wheel-drive mower from husqvarna. challenge the impossible. find the all- wheel-drive mower exclusively available at lowe's and independent dealers nationwide. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and maket happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom.
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♪ lou: the fbi indicats pressure cookers were used to make the two bombs that exploded in yesterday's terrorist attack. homeland security warning of the potential terrorist use of pressure cookers as early as back i 2004. joining us now, fox news middle eastern terrorism expert an analyst, cia operative, head of the pen louden tracking unit, michael sorry. thank you for being here. i want to ask you a fascinating, today talking about the context
in the war against terror. where are we in your does right now in what remains a global conflict? >> as long as the administration did not give us findings as to who did what or in which direction we should be looking, we have g to look at conflict. and the boston terrorist act could sit either both ternational and domestic geologists' or with extremists. both sides can perform the same operation. the conflict tells us that we are involved in battlefields elsewhere. we have been attacked 48 times at least inside the homeland i attempted gian the attacks that were mostly failures, but two of them were bloody.
we have been attacked in the mid-90s in many other incidents by extremists. so as far as t government is telling us, so far that they don't have the evidence that will tell us which of the two it could be. lou: there is no current indication to suggest that the events in boston are indicative of a broader plot in the united states. what is your reaction? >> my reaction is that this administration does not want to have a so-cacalled muslim probl. they still have not square with the american people. my hunch is that they know this is an islamist attack already. it certainly has the hallmarks of it in terms of trade craft and terms of timing, in terms of target. and i would certainly agree, we have continued to motivate the enemy. the enemy is now active on five continents.
we have just surrendered our forces or surrendered in worse commensurately we have galvanized this generation of islamists, just as they defeated the soviets in afghanistan in the 1980's galvanized ben laden's generation. lou: i know this may be a peculiar perspective to ask you to assess, but if this does not anger and galvanize the american people in the war against terror and radical islamist, what would it take? >> it depends on the political culture of the administration. we withdraw from iraq and organize the withdrawal from afghanistan, what the weight is raised to the american public is we are winning those words. we are not. the way they are perceived is that we are in full retreat. the perception of the other side is the most important.
it is motivating, first of all, their operatives around the world. al qaeda today is a spending ten times at least geographically as it was look at africa. very active in the west. the french have been arresting cellfter sell. so there is a perspective of a demonstration to the american people so that they understand where we are. lou: want to give you the last word. we are out of time. your thoughts? >> my thought, as it was in 1996, that we hav to have a president who will tell the american people that we are motivating the enemy by what we do overseas. in terms of our foreign policy. if we need to keep doing that and we have to keep doing it. we have to tell the american people how bloody and how long this war is going to be. this has nothing to do with gender equalit or elections. it has to do with waging war against peopl bieve to be interfering with their land and
their faith. lou: thank you both for being with us. >> thank you, sir. lou: up next, the markets recover after yesterday's massive sell-off. we will show you why here next. ♪ @
♪ lou:tocks recovered from the biggest 1-dayay sell-off of this year on encouraging news on housing. joining us now, a senior u.s. economist for deutsche bank securities. this is a pretty impressive performance today. is it convincing enough hat we are going to see more strength on the days ahead? >> it certainly has been impressive as a performance. i think a lot of the movement we saw today was just to recover from the massive sell-off yesterday when the news of the tragedy in boston struck. stocks went into a sharp nosedive. the news that it was relatively limited event and was not the beginning of a chain of
dominoes, the markets took that as relief. a lot of it was recovery. the housing data then added a little bit more momentum to that lou: you think that is the perception in the market. >> i think that the housing numbers were not as great as they looked once he staed to dig beneath the sur. really the core of the housing data, single-family homes, in that category it fell about 5% in march. this completes a continuing story of the march data looking lousy from the employment report to retail sales, single-family home starts. lou: what happened to our friend, the bull? >> everything is not always move in the right direction. march is a prime example of that an unusually cold march, the coldest since 1996. transitional month were things like home building and the league baseball in all these things start up. it's called those things could delayed until april.
lou: an uptick in single-family housing sales? cutting its base for global economic growth to my know that everyone just quivers when the imf does something. make anything of it? >> that is not a very good global growth forecast. due to weakness in china and europe. fortunately for the u.s. china and europe not so much. i think in the back half of the year we will see some acceleration in some meaningful improvement in the labour market lou: we get kind of pochial about these things. things were good for the usa cup pretty good for us. we appreciate it. up next and the secretary of state is three pinocchio's from the washington post. my goodness.
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lou: looking at live pictures of thousand people now gathering for a candlelight vigil in remembrance of the three dead and 176 injured in yesterday's bombing, a terrorist attack at the boston marathon finish line. these peopleave gathered at garvey park in dorchester, a section of boston where 8-year-old martin richard, who was killed in yesterday's bomb attack lived.
the "washington post" giving secretary of state john kerry three pinocchio's for his claim that foreign students are not coming to america. there are scared of our guns. said the secretary of state, while in japan, if you can believe that. >> we had an interesting discussion about why fewer students are coming to, particularly from japan, to study in the united states. and one of the responses i got from our officials from conversation with parents here is that they are actually scared -hey think they are n safe in the united states. and so they don't come. lou: this is our secretary of state representing the united states in a foreign country, for crying out loud. i know he is new to the job, but -- and this has always been a curious probl. the little too clever by half.
the institute of internation education tracks the number of foreign students here inhe united states. and the number of foreign students in this country actually rose nearly 6% from 2010 to 2011. that is the last year f which statistics are available. repeat, mr. secretary, they rose. the number of japanese students on american campuses did fall by 14 percent during the same timeframe, but itas been declining for the past 15 years to mr. secretary. and experts, that is, those who know what they're talking about, mr. secretary, a tribute that decline to a rapidly aging japanese population. not a fear of our guns, as you so eloquently put it, mr. secretary. up next, in "dobbs law" we will tell you how prosecutors are bringing legal pressure to capture the suspects in the boston bombings. next. ♪ all stations come over to mission a for a final go.
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♪ lou: update you on breaking news out of capitol hill. as we reported to you earlier, a letter addressed to senator roger wicker, republican of mississippi, tested positive for the deadly poison ricin. fox news has learned that the letter was sent from a individual who does reside in mississippi and mailed the letter from memphis, tennessee. sources say they are familiar with a personelieved toave sent this letter, as they have sent other letters before this. again, wwill have the latest for you here on the fox business network as details become available. joining us now, fox is legal analyst, criminal defense and familyaw attorney. ank you for being here. let's start with this investigation in boston. what are -- they are dependent upon so much in the way of
forensic. >> looking at the devices themselves, right. lou: what are they doing right now? how they perceive? >> they're gng through the forensics looking at the device is because everyevice has some kind of fingerprint. not a real fingerprint, but it does almost to the same extent. fingerprints, surveillance. boston is one of the city's more than new york that is surveiled everywhere someone must have some pictures. and now we have had a lot of rumors coming out, but they are going through that, going through everything. it has been said, but that it is too small. they will follow through on everything that they can handle. u: is this -- is there a note of desperation here as they call for all of this evidence? is the fbi is begging people to come forward with a videotape with any kind of recording that they have. >> well, first, i agree with everything that was just said. for me, vigilance is the word of
the day. i don't necessarily think that the government is desperate preventing the government is being thorough. whenever you want to uncover what took place at such a tragedy as this, forensic is critical. because of the day and age when we use such media outlets, the internet, photographs, everybody can do things in real time. i think the government is being vigilant in trying t go to airports, see if anybody has any information, speak to the medical doctors. see what types of things were thrown off as a result of this bombing. see what the forensic evidence is demand that the government is doing an excellent job that. lou: of want to turn to this her fifth child at is going on in philadelphia which the media is being accused rightly have not adequately covering. careful testimony from the daughter of the victim. >> one victim. lou: yes. one of the victims. she received a labor inducing drugs. she died.
charged, perhaps murdered. some of this testimony. >> it's horrible. lou: testifying about fetal body parts stored into containers. >> right. and parts everywhere. having to go to the medical examiner. it is horrible case. when you hear some of the testimony, here is what i think will be the crux of the matter for the prosecution. the prosecution, believe nine other people have pled guilty to some part of this case. bring those people. get one or more of us. reduce the sentence and get them to testify because the problem is, the medical examiner could not say on cross that the fetuses were actually viable. born babies. that is what the charge was. born babies, babies were born after the legal limitation. lou: the word viable is peculiar word. they were viable. you would normally -- i'm sorry. >> that is what they have to
prove, that they were actually alive. that these babies were alive, and that this doctor killed and. lou: your thoughts. >> i agree, as disgusting and terrific as the situation is, there is illegal component. they have to prove that these children or these babies were actually alive, and it is very difficult in the medical world in order to accomplish that. they have to have these other individuals involved to get a successful prosecution, especially if theye seeking the death penalty which is coming you know, in the end the most harsh punishment that our government in and out. lou: vy quickly, we have just about 20 seconds. your thoughts about the adult patients, the woman. >> that is certainly a murder charge. she came in, was given an incompetent abortion and died. that should be definitely a murder charge. lou: the last four really quick. >> yes. i think that is a murder charge the should stick. once again, there is a legal hurdle they have t o